Did you consider using DDD or Feature modeling and linking to the
spreadsheets?
--
regards /Thomas V
"Ralph Hertle" <zxcvzxcv3@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:qp_Pi.1314$2o1.985@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "ut151469"
>
>
> Concerning Diagrams for Stair Platforms, Ramps and Towers
>
>
> I set up the dimensional geometry matrix for more than 4000 tread levels
> for
> a fossil fuel exhaust gas desulfurization plant, and that had eight tall
> stair towers, miscellaneous stairs, catwalks, and mezzanines. [The
> project
> was by Shaw Stone and Webster for PPL.]
>
> I used MicroStation to make the plans and elevations of the precise
> geometries involved. These were based upon calculations made outside
> MicroStation, and they were the base of the models made in MicroStation.
>
> I decided that after having been provided blurry red line sketches,
> numbers
> and ungrammatical oral instructions from the job captain, that together
> the
> total instructions were unintelligible during the next several days and
> weeks. There were also numerous instructions amounting to more than 400,
> or
> possibly 800, percent aggregate total redesign during the geometry
layout
> stage. Confusion was the order of the day.
>
> I placed all the information that controlled the stair structure
geometry
> into an Excel website replete with levels, heights, widths, depths, and
> tread offsets. Formulas governed the dimensions, and all numbers for
every
> ramp were automatically calculated. Many more weeks with a calculator,
or
> doing the geometry graphically using MicroStation, would have been
> necessary
> if Excel had not done the calculations. The information was available
> weeks
> and months later, and is the best way to provide the dimensional
> requirements to the stair structures manufacturer. [Scratch built stairs
> are
> not a good idea.]
>
> Break the design down into blocked sections for calculation in Excel.
All
> working points may be included, located and numbered, and all code
heights
> and widths can be properly noted. Excel also provides plenty of text
> capabilities for notes, headlines, and related information.
>
> Each ramp is drawn with a geometry cell that is modified using Fence
> Stretch, for example, and placed into the drawing. For the 3D geometry
> model
> the geometry profiles were formed using Extrude Element on the cells.
>
> The time consuming part of the work is making the numerous revisions,
and
> the geometry is based upon the engineer's basic design schemes. I found
> that
> the design arrangements didn't often require many changes in the
vertical
> dimension scheme, and any vertical changes were easily handled by
entering
> new values into Excel and recalculating.
>
> If it had been necessary, it would have been possible to enter "IF"
> formulas
> in the Excel cells. If many level changes or added levels are necessary
> the
> number of risers per ramp changes, and the heights vary in, or not in,
> accordance with codes or practicality. In that way Excel can provide a
> greater or lesser number or risers of certain heights based upon the
> intended floor to floor heights.
>
> The detailed designed structures of the selected drawing types, either
of
> 2D
> or 3D models, are easily done once the factual information has been made
> available, calculated and recorded.
>
> I would suggest that the project engineer who integrates all design
> matters
> be in agreement of the method to be used, e.g., using Excel and
> MicroStation, and that the job captain not make those decisions. The
> engineer decided the principles of design arrangement, and the job
captain
> gives work instructions to make deliverables. That's a critical
> differentiation. Its a critical method to be decided, and that the
> information is then available to all concerned.
>
> The structural engineers and structural designer/drafters should know
> where
> the files are located and how to employ the geometry data and drawings
for
> their designs.
>
> While the automated CAD stair layout sub-programs in CAD programs, for
> example, in IGDS or TriForma, can make the drawings, it is still
necessary
> to have all the information notes precisely stated in a proper file.
>
> MicroStation's drafting commands are so numerous and functional that
they
> make short work of the drawing; especially if there is any amount of
> custom
> designing involved.
>
> To make the finished 2D or 3D model add cells that have the desired
amount
> of abstraction or detail. Cells may provide a high degree of
> representational accuracy concerning a specific vendor's stair product.
I
> strongly recommend not using authoritarian stair symbols or generic
> stylizations, and that specific real-world vendor's products be used for
> the
> finished representations of the designs. Make a deal with the vendor to
> either get their MicroStation cells, or that you split the costs of
> creating
> the cells.
>
> With proper Excel files and models the vendor will be able to provide a
> better job, and his work of detailing and cost calculations will take
less
> time.
>
> The resulting 2D and 3D models and drawings will have a properly shaped
> and
> dimensioned appearance that will enable other systems to be correctly
> designed in accordance with the stair systems. The dimensional
information
> in Excel will be in a proper format that will enable the stair
> manufacturer
> to detail the products to be furnished.
>
> The Excel file is a better place for the dimensions than in a complex
> drawing, although a few simple dimensions may be placed in the drawing
for
> wayfinding purposes.
>
> Reply if you have any questions.
>
> Let us know who you are and how your project develops.
>
>
> Ralph Hertle
> ralph.hertle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ....................................
>
> "ut151469" <DukeDB@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:1192139607.343516.129150@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> :I am designing steel stairs for platforms in power plants. Can
> : someone give me an idea where I might get some information on how to
> : set up working points for the elevations, etc. Any help would be
> : appreciated. Also I know autoCad has a stair converter. Any
> : converter for Microstation? Thanks.
> :
>
>
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